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Nearly 12 months of Operation.

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To whom concerned, in April I think it is 12 months since I got this board to work within the Masso G3 control for Plasma cutting. It was a task that spent many hours trying to decipher comments from CNCnutz and Brezzy and then Ross. Now after these months I can report that it works with Masso G3. It all comes from a simple board, it is how it is understood. I have been challenged by others, but the results collected are beyond belief. Only one person, SeroMann Designs contacted me. He has it running in the USA.

A photo extra is the quality of a 3D Tig machine weld using the same comparator.

I like the new screen.

Thanks to all those guys.

Cheers.

 

Uploaded files:
  • Dt115.jpg
  • 3D-tig.jpg
SegoMan DeSigns and Breezy have reacted to this post.
SegoMan DeSignsBreezy

Hi Lilow, I didn’t know Masso did CNC welding. The weld in that picture is impressive. Can you get video of it in action?

Mike

@aussiemike

I believe the following is the 3D TIG in action , it is part of a series of videos that @lilow has posted on his adventures with CNC plasma cutting.

 

@aussiemike

Masso supply a controller, what you do with it after purchase is up to the client.

The welding photo is a sample of the weld produced using the board shown (photo) for arc voltage height control.

( DeckCNC Gen2 controller used, it took 7 years to develop the 3D Tig welding machine based around a Cyclomatic AVHC, replacement cost = $10K US )

The DeskCNC control might be replaced with the Masso when they can supply a 3D screen.

The same board is used in the plasma with the Masso controller.

Cheers.

SegoMan DeSigns has reacted to this post.
SegoMan DeSigns

Get masso to add the proper THC control it be real nice  up down inputs lack control.  voltage is not always coming out of the plasma dead on.  like cutting off edge over a hole Expand metal

this is what THC should be able to do . not just read voltage

• Automatic or manual control of the cutting sequence
• “Sample and Hold” voltage mode - THC measures the voltage at the end of the AVC Delay
and uses it as a set point for the remainder of the cut.
• Automatic Collision Avoidance, provided that the Ohmic sensor is used. This safety feature
allows the control to automatically adjust the torch height during a cut to help prevent
torch crashes
• THC OFF control from CNC (on corners, end of cut, circle of small radius)
• Programmable arc voltage limiter Lock Head Down to help prevent torch crashing when
crossing a kerf, corners, end of cut
• Programmable arc voltage control loop dynamic (gain) value
• Shot mode – can use for marking centers of the circles
• Works with Float Head and Ohmic sensors for IHS simultaneously
• Built in Testing of the cutting sequence
• Integrated diagnostic system informs the operator of the errors that occurred
• Programmable automatic positioner speed
• Programmable jog positioner speed
• Programmable IHS (initial height sensing) touch speed
• Programmable acceleration
• Programmable arc transfer height
• Programmable pierce height
• Programmable pierce time
• Programmable cutting height
• Programmable AVC (automatic voltage control) delay time
• Programmable crossover (IHS start) height (high-to-low speed transition point)
• Programmable torch retract height
• Programmable torch retract delay
• Programmable maximum torch slide length (Soft Limit)
• Easy setup for Float Head switch offset value

@jcoldon

• Automatic or manual control of the cutting sequence ( can be achieve already )
• “Sample and Hold” voltage mode - THC measures the voltage at the end of the AVC Delay
and uses it as a set point for the remainder of the cut. ( the voltage mode changes during cutting, pre-set to what and adjust on the fly )
• Automatic Collision Avoidance, provided that the Ohmic sensor is used. This safety feature
allows the control to automatically adjust the torch height during a cut to help prevent ( never had a collision in 22 years cutting )
torch crashes
• THC OFF control from CNC (on corners, end of cut, circle of small radius ( this is never needed if programmed correctly )
• Programmable arc voltage limiter Lock Head Down to help prevent torch crashing when
crossing a kerf, corners, end of cut ( the machine can cross a pre-cut parts without crashing, comes back to your programming and accessories used )
• Programmable arc voltage control loop dynamic (gain) value ( maybe good, but can't see any advantage )
• Shot mode – can use for marking centers of the circles ( what's this about ? )
• Works with Float Head and Ohmic sensors for IHS simultaneously ( why ?? , it does know )
• Built in Testing of the cutting sequence ( a good operator has already programmed the sequence with some sort of knowledge)
• Integrated diagnostic system informs the operator of the errors that occurred ( never ever thought that this would be an issue if the machine is built well )
• Programmable automatic positioner speed ( why ?? , the jog speed is on the screen )
• Programmable jog positioner speed ( change your jog speed in F1)
• Programmable IHS (initial height sensing) touch speed ( can be done already )
• Programmable acceleration ( done in F1 )
• Programmable arc transfer height ( can be changed on the fly with a good THC )
• Programmable pierce height ( all done in the initial program )
• Programmable pierce time ( all done in the initial program )
• Programmable cutting height ( all done in the initial program )
• Programmable AVC (automatic voltage control) delay time ( all done in the initial program )
• Programmable crossover (IHS start) height (high-to-low speed transition point) ( ??? )
• Programmable torch retract height ( all done in the initial program, but can be set in F1 )
• Programmable torch retract delay ( all done in the initial program )
• Programmable maximum torch slide length (Soft Limit) ( F1 )
• Easy setup for Float Head switch offset value ( in F1 again )

I think you had better take this to Masso , they will not understand as I certainly don't.

Keep it simple.

Cheers. As I see this.

 

Breezy has reacted to this post.
Breezy

@lilow

A couple of questions with respect to your setup:

  • What filtering / clamping of the arc voltage do you apply before using the signal with the DT-115 comparator board?
  • Two of the comparator channels are used for Arc OK detection - what is the voltage range you use?
  • For the Raise/Lower comparators channels do you use the same reference voltage? (is there any dead-band between raise/lower?)
  • What is the ratio between the THC feed rate and the cut feed rate?
    • My understanding is this ratio impacts the THC performance (it becomes the limit of the slope the torch can raise/lower). It needs to be high enough for the torch to follow the contour of the metal sheet being cut but not too high that the torch comes racing down when crossing a previous cut.

@zombieengineer

  • What filtering / clamping of the arc voltage do you apply before using the signal with the DT-115 comparator board?
  • Plasma arc voltage = 108v, divided voltage at 13.5 :1, ( 8v ) read voltage set to around 7.3v. ( my own built divider board to a Cebora Prof 122 machine )
  • Two of the comparator channels are used for Arc OK detection - what is the voltage range you use?
  • Two channels are set for Arc OK, this I don't use on the Masso, F1 screen Arc OK set to a high (red).
  • Not connected to the Masso imputs.
  • The high / low of those 2 channels can set from 0 to 30 volts, or a voltage to cover the spectrum of the set voltage to cover the dead band voltages with a margin either way.
  • If set voltage is ( as mentioned above ) 7.3v, OK low could be set to 5V, OK high could be set to 9.5v.
  • For the Raise/Lower comparators channels do you use the same reference voltage? (is there any dead-band between raise/lower?)
  • The same reference voltage is the read voltage set, this voltage can be adjusted anytime during cutting if a higher or lower status is required.
  • The dead band is set to around 0.004 Volts, the speed of this reaction is determined by the capacitor value on the input side of the comparator board.
  • What is the ratio between the THC feed rate and the cut feed rate?
  • The THC feed rate is set with the M667 F??
  • Normally for 4mm plate, this would be F50mm, 3mm / F70mm, X y axis speed of 2000 / 2500mm respectively.
    • My understanding is this ratio impacts the THC performance (it becomes the limit of the slope the torch can raise/lower). It needs to be high enough for the torch to follow the contour of the metal sheet being cut but not too high that the torch comes racing down when crossing a previous
    • After 20 years of using this home built CNC Plasma, it becomes a part of life when writing the programs with my own post processor with BobcadCam 17.
    • Cheers, thanks for asking.

Lillow  you might want to go back and look at some of your answers    like AVC ther no such control in masso or your lillow  all you have there is a voltage comparator nothing more cutting in the 2500 mm speed

that no cut speed that for cutting 10 ga and 3/16 ... i can do that with no THC...  hypertherm pm 85  45 amp 16 ga steel cuts at 350 ipm that 8900 mm per min to you and i rapid at 31000 mm per min that 1200 inch per min my z axis does 400 ipm  acceleration rates of 35 to 50

. that voltage comparator crash a torch it simply never read that fast  .  lots of things on the list i posted you answered wrong .Ycant be going in g code to set responce rate that nuts do a new repost for changes .

thers no ohmic and torch slide as back up feature .  automatic positioner speed it not jog speed .Thers no delay settin for thc in masso no g code does that .   you cant compare a neuron THC full auto THC control.

With that lilow comparator  using up down inputs that be like compare a 1 leg horse to a 4 leg one. You simply have no THC control features in masso other then g code reaction time

this is the very reason why no oem going to use a masso on there tables they know . and the ones that are using proma that work for what they are . And a lot of intervention .

i had a masso G2 3 years ago doing plasma tests i know what masso does . i know have a G3 now i going to give it another go .this time with neuron thc help ..

you might want to read up on THC and the full plasma process that hypertherm has in the books ..   your running your table way slower most likely cutting thick steel any THC work for that .

if i can make a neuron run with a masso it be a very good plasma controller . not many controllers do THC like neuron

like i said show me the lillow cut like this neuron video .  plasma cnc uccnc + neuron THC 3 P-t.in.ua 066 176 5900 p155@ukr.net - YouTube

@jcoldon

I think you are in for a shock, a 1 legged horse doesn't need a race anymore.

You continue working with what you want to.

You make Neuron work with Masso and then I will believe it, until then don't disqualify others.

Your assumptions leave me in disbelief for a person who appears to be so qualified and then trying to make these THC things work .

Never under estimate the power of needing something to work.

( you will do it, one day )

Now stop mentioning Hypertherm settings, they may not work in the real world, maybe only in their lab.

A lot of users don't even use a Hypertherm.

I looked at Neuron years ago, but you weren't around at the time for any advice.

Lucky I kept going to what I achieved.

Cheers from the Dingo.

 

 

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